[John] On a similar subject, of David [Suff] and your back-catalogue, if you like, I’ve been counting up how many albums of various descriptions were released last year with your name on; and it came to eighteen.

[Ralph] Eighteen?!

Eighteen. They’re not all ‘Ralph McTell’ albums. A lot are compilations, and some are from various countries - compilations of various sorts.

And, apart from the tremendous three CDs for ‘As Far As I Can Tell’, which was your own work, obviously, there were some re-issues.

The three Transatlantic albums came out on CD at last, and then, later in the year, on your birthday, Highpoint released ‘The Definitive Collection’.

And I was wondering what handle you had on those, if any.

Right. Let’s start with the Transatlantic records. I feel honoured that they’ve done that, although I think the company has now changed hands within weeks of them coming out, and we don’t know how long, or how substantially, they’ll be promoted, or whatever.

And it’s really weird to me to think that they’ve been out constantly – they’ve never been out of print, or they’ve been available since 1968, continuously, those recordings, though not in that format. So, why someone would pay three quid for all of it, and then pay ten quid for each one singly, is beyond me.

£5.99 from HMV on the internet.

When I listen to those recordings, I find I am quite moved, because I always was a deep thinker and a worrier, and everything, and making those records was not… I was already married, don’t forget. I was a young man with a child at that time, almost it coincided… I did not know where my life was going. I had a belief that music had the power to change things, and I was lucky enough to be involved, but almost from day one I was being steered away from the kind of production that I wanted to have.

I got close to it as an amateur on the third album, ‘My Side of Your Window’, which was my production – Gus [Dudgeon] and I parted company. But, because of perhaps the serious nature of, you know, what I was trying to do, or whatever, record companies always thought I could be moved into the pop world. And their ‘pop world’ was not Rock ’n’ Roll, it was the Middle of the Road.

And ‘Streets of London’ was an underground phenomenon in that time, and my career has always been anchored, or hand-braked, by that song, or accelerated, depending on which side you choose to take.

If it just wasn’t one of the songs I had written at that time, I wonder if I would have had a career like I’ve had. Because there’s no doubt that every time you reach a little low spot, ‘Streets’ comes along and pulls you out of it; or someone else has recorded it; and it goes round and round, and so on, and… I could talk about that all day, but I don’t really want to do that.

But when I listen to those songs, and I know I was years younger than my sons are now, I find it very hard to listen to them. And I find the kind of uncertainty of the vocals, the fact that I was being steered away from what I wanted to do in terms of production - not the writing: the writing would have been the same - I find it quite moving, actually.

2007
was Ralph’s 40th Anniversary year as a recording artist. It was marked by the long-overdue release on CD of Ralph’s first three albums – and (at the last count) by a further 16 releases word-wide containing Ralph McTell performances.

UK Releases

January
Various Artists - 100 Huge Hits of the 60s & 70s
4CD set with 'Streets of London'

Various Artists - The Wind in the Willows – the Complete First Series
2 DVDs with Ralph singing the Theme Song at the beginning and end of all 13 episodes

March
Ralph McTell - Gates of Eden
Retail release of this 2006 CD

April
Various Artists - The Sound of the 70s
Double CD with 'Streets of London'

Ralph McTell - Bridge of Sighs
CD reissue of 1986 album

Various Artists - The Essential Guide to Folk
3CD set with 'Hesitation Blues'

Fairport Convention - 25th Anniversary Concert
Double CD reissue - Ralph sings 'Polly on the Shore' with FC

May
Steve Tiltson - Reaching Back
5CD box set - Ralph sings 'Is this the Same Boy'

July
Dave Pegg - A Box of Pegg’s
4CD box set with Ralph’s 'Pykey Boy'

August
Ralph McTell - Eight Frames a Second – Expanded Edition
CD reissue of 1968 album with bonus tracks

Ralph McTell - Spiral Staircase – Expanded Edition
CD reissue of 1969 album with bonus tracks

Ralph McTell - My Side of Your window – Expanded Edition
CD reissue of 1969 album with bonus tracks

Various Artists - The Essential Guide to Acoustic
3CD set with 'Streets of London'

October
Ralph McTell - Live at The Royal Festival Hall
Retail release of 'The London Show' DVD

Ralph McTell - As Far as I Can Tell
Treble CD ‘audio book’ of Ralph’s autobiography

December
Ralph McTell - The Definitive Collection
CD retrospective of Ralph’s ‘best tracks’

International Releases

Belgium
Various Artists - Aan Tafel
Treble CD with 'Streets of London'

Germany
Various Artists - Woodsongs
4CD set with 'Streets of London'

Israel
Various Artists - The Voice of Peace
Double CD with 'Streets of London'

And not knowing what the future was, and dear Nanna putting up with it all, and knowing that I’ve got this opportunity and I’ve got to do it; and she never tried to steer me away from music, ever.

But then, by itself, you know, when all around me were falling in and out of love, and in and out of relationships, and blowing their record company money and everything, I was just sweating away at it. There was a lot of perspiration and artistic creativity, you know, sitting at home in the council flat writing when everyone had gone to bed and trying not to tap on the floor. I used to say that every song of mine was set by the ticking of the old Victorian clock I had on the wall, because, you know, if you tapped your foot the bloke downstairs used to come up and have words.

So the songs that grew out of those first three albums, or four albums, were all sort of fairly reflective and quiet, you know. Apart from the Jug Band hang-over, it sort of dictated the way I would go; and I find it very moving.

I think the first Ralph McTell album that came out that was truly, truly, satisfying to me, was the one that Tony Visconti produced, which was ‘Not Till Tomorrow’; which I loved, because I thought, if that had been my first album, that’s how I wanted it to sound - stripped down, bare, great drive, not a lot of reverb, and crisp guitar sounds. Some of Tony’s backing vocals were a bit over the top, but he had that pop sensibility… that’s where I felt I should have started off. But I was never allowed to do that, but, probably, you know, other factors that looked perhaps more televisual and pop-music orientated than…

Well, Gus and Tony were learning their trade at the same time, weren’t they?

Well, Gus was. I mean we were unlikely matched, but I loved Gus. He was hilarious to work with; and snobby and poncey and squeaky clean. He used to iron his jeans and iron his socks, and probably iron his pants as well. He was just such a lovely guy, full of vigour and fun, and, you know, great ears. But too meticulous for me.

But Tony got into the soul of what I was about, you know. He’s a most marvellous producer, Tony Visconti is. His track record speaks for itself. He could do anything.

The Transatlantic Collection
In 2007 Ralph’s first three albums were reissued on CD with extra tracks

'Eight Frames a Second' CD

'Spiral Staircase' CD

'My Side of Your Window' CD

So, on these reissues then, were you involved in picking the extra tracks?

I didn’t want anyone to ever hear ‘Suzanne’. I hoped and prayed it had been… I though we actually managed to screw it up completely, because when they gave it to me, the lyric - and it was a deal that was being done - there were three songs pressured on me to record. I think this story’s been told before, but I’ll tell it again briefly, if I can - ‘Morning Dew’, ‘Granny Takes a Trip’ and ‘Suzanne’.

I was a young artist. I was held on a contract with Transatlantic to say I wouldn’t sign for anybody else for nine months while they made up their mind if they were going to record me. A ridiculous thing to do, but no-one else would have been interested, I don’t think, and I was happy to sign anything.

The deal was that Nat Joseph had a publishing company called Heathside Music, and he had signed a band called The Purple Gang. And in those days record companies tried to sign the publishing of writers as well. I came to him from another publisher, so they had my songs – which was Essex Music. And Nat had Heathside Music, so he said part of the deal was I had to record one of their songs, which was ‘Granny Takes a Trip’. Essex Music, who controlled my publishing, said they would help me get this contract if I would record one of their songs, ‘Morning Dew’ – because, if they managed to get that on record, they would then control the publishing of Tim Rose’s music. Tim actually didn’t write that song; it was written by Bonnie Dobson.

Third of all, there was a young man in America, a few years older than me, making a huge name for himself, that Nat Joseph was absolutely thrilled to bits by. He’d written a book called ‘Beautiful Losers’. And this song arrived. And Nat thought it was the best song, and Essex between them found if they could get three covers - or something like this, this may not be verbatim - but three covers on a song by Leonard Cohen, they could control, or get a piece of, Leonard’s publishing. And he was about to become huge.

Under sufferance, we recorded ‘Granny Takes a Trip’. All I had to do was to sing the vocal, which I read once, and that was it.

‘Morning Dew' - I would have loved to have done a better version of that. But I couldn’t beat the original, and it was just a joke. I can tell all about that particular song some time.

But they gave me the lyric of ‘Suzanne’, and I said, “This is rubbish!” I looked at it and I said, “What does it mean?” And me and Gus were both in hysterics reading this lyric out:

“..she feeds you tea and oranges that come all the way from China… wearing rags and feathers from Salvation Army counters…”

I mean, what the…? No-one had written a song like this.

Not even Bob.

Suzanne

In August 2007, Andy Langran asked Ralph to comment on the CD releases of the three Transatlantic albums. Of the inclusion of 'Suzanne', Ralph said:

"My worst fears have been realised - that recording has not been lost for ever after all. I only wish at the time of recording it I had got a better handle on that song. At the time I hadn't got a clue what it was about, and I still don't get all of it. Most of all, I'm disappointed that I failed to realise it was a truly classic song - I hope Mr Cohen will forgive me. If he ever decides to cover one of mine, I promise not to be too critical!"

It sounded like a pastiche of bad Bob Dylan writing. But I had to do it, and Tony did the arrangement, and, bless his heart, he did it in the wrong key for me. It was recorded in the key of C; and I insisted on an edit and cut words out. I just said, “I can’t say these things”.

Of course, over the years I have come to realize that Leonard Cohen is not just a good writer, but he’s a great writer. He’s a real poet. I don’t have any of his albums. I’m never likely to buy them. But I cannot deny the great artist that he is. He’s not my taste. I don’t look into things like that. I don’t choose to write like that, and the never-ending love songs and variations of love that he writes about, are not the ones that I write about.

But I had to record it. Anyway, thankfully for me at the time, I managed to avoid getting it on the record. And I was deeply grateful for that; and I don’t know what happened - whether Essex got somebody else to do it or not - but that stayed off the album.

Spiral Staircase

This acetate of 'Spiral Staircase' was auctioned on eBay.

Now, later on we tried… ‘Spiral Staircase’ was a massive hit in the clubs around the country with the Jug Band, and we even had a cover version by The Jug Trust, who did a very fine recording of it as well. And I thought, “Wow, I’m a writer! I really can write up-tempo stuff and everything”.

And Gus suggested we record it with a rock band, and I don’t think that survived, but I recorded it with half of Hookfoot and Rick Wakeman. And it’s a blinding version, but probably it was only ever done on an acetate, and it wasn’t going to take me in the direction which I was headed.

I can’t remember what else was on there – there was a version of 'San Francisco Bay Blues' on one of them which was done a little bit later, but I can’t remember which album that was on either.

Well, that’s turned up on the first CD reissue.

On the first? Well, it was actually around the time of the second, between the second and the third, probably.

But Rick Wakeman had just been discovered by Dave Cousins, and then introduced to Gus, who just had an unerring ear for talent. He basically put the Elton John band together, you know, Davey Johnstone (who was with Noel Murphy as Draught Porridge), and Caleb Quaye, who played on ‘Old Brown Dog’ and was with Hookfoot; and, you know, Gus more or less put the Elton John band together. He had a great ear for talented musicians. And he assembled a glittering cast for the album ‘You Well Meaning Brought Me Here’.

Indeed he did, yes, it’s just a who’s who as you read out who played on what.

And of course the wonderful Robert Kirby was on that, and there was a nice little story…. the only two albums that Nick [Drake] had left in his collection, when they found Nick, was a classical album, and ‘You Well Meaning Brought Me Here’, which I think Robert probably gave him. I don’t think he was particularly influenced by me, but we did play together, and knew each other by sight. His last gig was with me, actually. Yes, it was quite a thing.

So, I didn’t really have a lot of input into the songs, you know, what was there, they said, “Can they do it?”, and I just said, “What the Hell?”

It looks as though David did, because he wrote the sleeve notes for the reissues. It looks as though - and this is part of what I’m going to ask him - he’s used material he could have used on ‘The Journey’ to supplement these CD issues; so that’s the thing I think has happened there.

But, later in the year, the Highpoint one, called ‘The Definitive Collection’ - there’s one website suggests in their advert for this CD release that you chose the tracks.

I did.

Excellent!

I said, “If they’re going to do a ‘Definitive’, what do I do?” And I said to David, “Why would I in my right mind give away what I consider my best tracks?” He said, “Because it will encourage people to go to the other albums”. I didn’t want it to go out – but in the end I just caved in and I thought, “Well, let’s give them the best I can”.

In terms of variation, I wanted to show, for example, my blues roots a little bit, and a bit of instrumental work. I think there’s an instrumental on there; maybe there isn’t. But I also want to have an iTunes album out, with different material on it, which we’re going to call ‘The Story Songs of Ralph McTell’, which will be coming out on iTunes at some point.

But I did give it quite serious consideration, and with David’s help, we ended up with that list.

Which is one from each album really, since ‘Streets…’.

Is it really? I didn’t know that. Well, that’s nice.

There’s nothing from Alphabet Zoo, but we can forgive that; but basically there’s one from each album. It’s a very good retrospective; it works extremely well. When you look into it you can see exactly what you just said - all the styles. All the family material is there; you know, ‘You Make Me Feel Good’... You thought about it – it’s great.

Yes, I did. I thought, well, if I’m going to, you know… I’ve always tried to be truthful. I’ve been coerced a few times, thinking maybe I’m something I’m not, or maybe I could go in that direction. It’s funny, the truth really does float to the top like cream in the end.

The Definitive Collection

The Definitive Collection – Ralph’s choice of his ‘best tracks’ from each album since the release of The Hit in 1974:

1974 Single
Streets of London
1975 Streets…
You Make Me Feel Good
1976 Right Side Up
From Clare to Here
1979 Slide Away the Screen
Love Grows (1)
1982 Water of Dreams
Bentley & Craig
1985 At the End of a Perfect Day
Scarborough Fair
1986 Tickle on the Tum
Keeping the Night at Bay
1986 Bridge of Sighs
The Setting
1988 Blue Skies Black Heroes
Arthur Blake
Can’t be Satisfied
1990 Stealin’ Back
Stealin’
1992 The Boy With a Note
Summer Girls
1995 Sand in Your Shoes
Sand in Your Shoes
1999 Travelling Man
Peppers & Tomatoes
2000 Red Sky
Easter Lilies
2002 National Treasure
Pretty Boy Floyd

(1) This track is the remixed version from ‘Love Grows’,1982

If you’re honest in your intent when you’re writing, you can’t be someone you’re not. And there it is; what it is, is what it is.

Excellent, thank you. Right, let’s move on to something else shall we…?

Yeah.

[Go to Next Tale: Lakes of Milk]

With thanks to Ralph for sharing his time and his thoughts.
The text of this interview is the copyright of Leola Music Ltd, and may not be reproduced without permission.
All illustrations are the copyright of their owners or publishers and are reproduced here for information only.